Cleveringa Professor Landemore: ‘I want to patch the holes in our democracy’
Rich, white, urban: Western politicians often represent a small segment of the population. Political scientist Hélène Landemore advocates for a more inclusive democracy: for example, by involving citizens in decision-making through random selection. She will deliver the Cleveringa Lecture on 26 November.
Across the ocean in Connecticut, news of the nail-biting Dutch elections has reached French political scientist Hélène Landemore. The online interview begins with a question from Landemore herself: ‘How are your elections going?’ she asks from her office at Yale University. ‘I suspect it’s not fundamentally different from what’s happening in France, where we also have an extreme right-wing party.’ The conversation then turns to 1940, when democracy was stifled.
Professor Cleveringa opposed the exclusion of his Jewish colleagues in 1940. You say that even today, we exclude groups, albeit less consciously. What do you mean by that?
‘Professor Cleveringa protested against the open exclusion of his Jewish colleagues. I’m worried about the less obvious exclusion that arises from our electoral system. It tends to bring to power people who can win elections – and those are usually rich, highly educated, white men, homeowners rather than renters and urban rather than rural. In theory, they could represent others as well. But in practice, they don’t. Well-intentioned, highly educated Parisians simply don’t understand what something like a high fuel tax means for low-paid workers and farmers outside major cities.’
You want to make democracy more inclusive. How?
‘We all have blind spots, which is why we need mechanisms to correct them – for example, citizen assemblies based on random selection. Even if you’re a yellow vest protester, shy or marginalised, you can be selected. Once in such an assembly, you can voice the perspectives of people who would otherwise be invisible. The French government began by using repression during the 2018 and 2019 yellow vest protests, but that didn’t work, so they created regional citizen assemblies that were selected at random. I attended one in Rouen. Protesters engaged with all kinds of people. These were lively, inspiring encounters.
‘Later, President Macron organised a national citizens’ assembly on climate, which I observed, and then later another one on end-of-life issues, for which I was appointed to the governance committee. The law on this issue has not yet been passed, but this assembly worked well and serves as inspiration for my research into these kinds of alternatives.’
‘We all have blind spots, which is why we need mechanisms to correct them.’
What will your Cleveringa Lecture focus on?
‘My goal is to give people a democratic toolbox that works for everyone, not just the privileged few. I discuss three models of democracy: the market, the forum and the jury. The market treats citizens as consumers of political products. The forum allows citizens to talk to one another about policy. The jury, my favourite model, places citizens literally in the room where decisions are made, where they deliberate and decide. We already have citizen assemblies, as I explained, but there is much more to develop. I want to patch the holes in our democracy.’
You advocate for the collective wisdom of the people. Don’t populists claim the same?
‘I advocate for collective wisdom, but under certain highly proceduralised conditions. You must carefully select the sample, provide participants with the right conditions for thorough deliberation, and ensure they can listen to experts. Populist leaders claim they can channel the wisdom of all through their own minds. That is dangerous and delusional. I also do not like the principle of so much executive power resting in one person, as in France and, of course, in the U.S.’
‘Are we sliding toward fascism? Not yet.’
How does the Trump administration affect you and Yale University?
‘Personally, I’m not greatly affected because I work in social sciences and don’t rely on federal grants. But for colleagues in the hard sciences, it can be devastating. Some have lost postdocs and research funding. A few have even left the country. We recently heard that Harvard will cut graduate student recruitment by 50–75% next year. There is much that is alarming, but are we sliding toward fascism? Not yet. We still have very strong media and a decentralised system, so the federal state does not control everything.
‘What worries me at least as much is the concentration of power in tech companies like Amazon, combined with crony capitalism and minimal regulation. The AI revolution is moving so fast that there’s barely time to comprehend it before the next thing happens. We are letting it unfold with almost no control.’
What role should universities play in strengthening democracy?
‘Our work is knowledge, not political activism or social justice. Faculty and students can, of course, debate and protest individually, but the university as an institution should not express political positions. To keep democracy strong, we must protect our credibility as non-ideological spaces primarily devoted to the pursuit of knowledge and truth. An exception is when the university’s mission is threatened – then it must defend itself: for example, against direct attacks from the Trump administration.’
Watch the Cleveringa Lecture on 26 November
If you would like to watch the Cleveringa Lecture, the Great Auditorium is full, but seats are still available in the two adjacent rooms where the lecture will be screened live. Register here. You can also watch the lecture live on this website.